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Transcript

[00:00:00] Hey, everyone. As I'm recording this, I am just back from some time on the road, speaking at a few conferences and at a few different organizations' events. The topic we are covering today on this episode is something I talk about pretty much everywhere I go, and that is the topic of customer experience.

Getting the customer experience right, or better at least, is so important to our bottom line. It affects patron retention and customer loyalty. It affects brand sentiment. It affects whether people post about our organization and their experience online. Word of mouth is shown to be 5 to 10 times more effective for marketing than traditional or typical marketing channels alone. That comes from McKinsey, plus a ton of other different studies. So all of this is to say customer experience matters a lot.

And yet also in many ways, one of the reasons why it is so hard, or at least can be so hard for organizations to improve upon it, is because it takes multiple departments, teams, people, and job functions to make strides in this area. It's not just the marketing team does this or the production team does this. You're going to hear examples of what I'm talking about in this episode and how people really work cross-functionally to make a great customer experience.

For now, though, before we get into the interview, what I want to say is that in my book and on previous episodes, I have talked about the three elements of customer experience: the newcomer focus on the website, being newcomer friendly in your venue, and being newcomer facing in your marketing. We are diving really into the second one today.

The experience for the non-aficionado matters so much because long-time or loyal customers are already in. The pain point or friction lies with the people who aren't coming back or aren't regulars. These days, that group is a bigger and bigger portion of our audience; for some organizations, subscribers are now less than half the audience base.

There is a new report from Eventbrite called the Social Study Report: How Gen Z and Millennials Are Redefining Live Experiences in 2024. They found that 54% of respondents want surprise elements—surprise performances or guest lineups. They also found that over half of respondents trust people, not platforms, for recommendations. This underscores why word of mouth is so important.

Additionally, events that combine multiple niches, cultures, or scenes let people show up as their whole selves. 69% want to attend more events that combine different worlds or interests. Finally, for this generation, unpredictability signals quality. That is a real shift from how performing arts institutions typically define quality.

Today we are looking at an organization that does many of these things very well. We are talking about the customer experience specifically in the venue, and I have a case study I think you're going to love. I'm Aubrey Bergauer, and welcome to my podcast, The Offstage Mic.

Our guests today spearhead Mercury Soul, an organization that presents classical music in new ways. This includes mixing classical pieces with live DJ sets, performing in non-traditional venues, and incorporating incredible production value. Mercury Soul was founded by Grammy Award-winning composer Mason Bates. Joining him is Executive Director Toby Suckow, who spent 16 years in the live music industry booking artists like Adele and Coldplay before joining the arts world.

Aubrey: I want to start, Mason, with the origin story of Mercury Soul. What were the original ideas for starting this organization?

Mason Bates: It started around 2008 or 2009 out here in San Francisco. The biggest impulse was to bring people to classical music who just can't seem to make it to the concert hall. We wanted to create something like a 'concept car'—something that allows you to experiment with new things. For us, that means concert format, like using immersive wall map projections to let people know what they are hearing without a paper program.

Aubrey: Who is the audience for Mercury Soul?

Mason Bates: It’s everybody. We have kids who are eight years old and symphony regulars who are 68. Many people are 'classical curious' but don't regularly go to the symphony.

Toby Suckow: Our data shows they come from all over the Bay Area. We have people who usually only go to nightlife or EDM events, and people who would never normally see a DJ. It brings those backgrounds together.

Aubrey: Toby, talk about the growth in audience. I know 2024 was a record-breaking year and 2025 surpassed it.

Toby Suckow: It’s been remarkable. Year after year, we make a new record and then shatter it, both in ticket sales and gross revenue. Our earned revenue is really growing.

Aubrey: How do you design a show from idea to execution?

Mason Bates: We deal with club venues or unconventional spaces. We walk through every space physically to figure out acoustics, lighting, and stage placement. Then we build a program that reacts to that space. A massive cathedral might point toward resonant music like Arvo Pärt or Philip Glass.

Aubrey: You don’t list the repertoire in your marketing materials. Has that evolved?

Mason Bates: It started as a new music show, but it was challenging. Now, a set of classical music blooms out of a DJ set. We use the full range of 500 years of music history. We don’t have to worry about marketing 'top four' hits because people come for the brand and the experience.

Aubrey: Let’s talk about 'ambient information'—the projected program notes. Who writes those and how are they timed?

Mason Bates: I write them. We don't use screens; we use the walls of the venue to keep it from looking like a movie. We want to provide storytelling that allows a 16-year-old to walk out knowing who Gesualdo was without ever opening a book.

Aubrey: What are your pro tips for other organizations wanting to try this?

Mason Bates: It’s a dial, not a switch. Start by lowering the house lights. You can’t have it half-lit where you see every empty seat. You need a lighting designer and a projectionist. The biggest obstacle is the 'personnel roadblock'—people saying we can't do it because of safety or old contracts. You have to move past those to stay relevant.

Aubrey: Toby, I love the post-event emails you send. Tell us about those.

Toby Suckow: We get at least a 75% open rate. We send out the repertoire, photos of the composers, and a gallery of professional photos from the night. People find photos of themselves and share them on social media, which drives word of mouth. We also send handwritten thank-you notes to VIP ticket buyers immediately to welcome them into our donor community.

Aubrey: To bring this home, this is a question for both of you. So both of you, I want you to answer, but if you could make a wish or wave a magic wand, what one thing would you take from Mercury Soul and bring to a traditional orchestra or any other traditional artistic discipline? I said mine was probably projecting program notes, but you guys may have different answers. I’m not sure. So what’s your wish?

Mason Bates: Well, this is kind of a large category, but I would love for orchestras to make the show about the orchestra’s name. So let’s go to the San Francisco Symphony. What’s playing? I don’t know—let’s just go. It’s always awesome.

If they could do that, they escape this commodity situation where Beethoven markets a little higher than Mozart, or whatever. If we can get away from that and people go for the experience and the brand and education, then you have protected your programming freedom, which is what we need.

At the end of the day, classical music is really about a deep experience, and so we have to deliver on that.

Toby Suckow: I will say that one of the things that Mercury Soul really does well is the social aspect of our events and the freedom of our events, which is not always the case in the traditional classical environment. If people come from a background where they’re more used to DJ events or concerts, you’re not used to “okay, I have to sit down at this point, I have to leave my drink here, there’s no talking.” There’s just less of a social aspect. And I feel like there could be better ways to integrate that.

Aubrey: Thank you for that. I just have to say, for anybody listening—you’ve heard me say this a million times—the growth starts with the audience. There’s no pipeline for fundraising otherwise. So I think you’re doing so many things right and so many things well. I’m clearly biased, I’ve clearly drunk the Kool-Aid, but building on success—that was a theme in both of your answers.

I think that’s a good way to end it. Not a lot of organizations right now get to say that every category of revenue is growing. For a lot of organizations, it’s kind of the opposite. So I’m just so happy that Mercury Soul gets to set an example in that way.

So thank you both so much for being here. Mason, Toby—I learned some new things too, so it’s just been a real pleasure. Thank you.

Mason Bates: Thank you for having us.

Toby Suckow: Yeah, thank you so much. And thank you so much for all the advice that you’ve given to Mercury Soul that has helped us get here.

Aubrey: You guys are so good.